Another game decided by a wrong decision from the referee. Something must be done !!What is the answer to this problem ??
Do we scrap the two refs ? Do we scrap the refs that are not up to standard ? Do we get rid of Robert Finch ? Because he either isn't employing the right people or he isn't coaching them properly. Do we train retired ex-league players and get them in as soon as possible ?
I vote for the last option. Get Luke Phillips and Paul Mellor in right away and start seeking out recently retired players and train them up. They have played the game and actually understand it. Some of these current refs are the kids at school that never got picked in any teams. They have never played the game and don't know how to control it at all. You must have played the game to truly understand it. Where has all the common sense gone ?? Im over it !!
It really is an absolute joke at the moment
ReplyDeleteThere is two sides to this. Two weeks ago the Titans were robbed on the bell against the Knights in a 50/50 decision, yesterday they won because of a 50/50 desicion. What goes around comes around.
ReplyDeleteManly need to take some responsibilty in the fact that they left themselves open to loose this game. With their ruck dominance and possession the Sea Eagles should have won the game comfortably.
In terms of the penalty, I think it could be interpreted to be both a penalty and play on. This is the problem with the rules it is too open to interpretation. If you watched the game yesterday it would have seemed that the Sea Eagles were rolling through the centre of the ruck easily and the Titans were not moving up, however the Titans were been kept back at least 2 metres further than what the Sea Eagles were throughout especially the first half which gave Manly the advantage line for the majority of the contest. Again because we have 2 referees we have 2 different interpretations on rules which are too open to interpretations.
However what is the answer? If we are going to go back to having a single referee we will have WWF tactics back, strips which are continually missed, forward passes ect ect. I have a mild suggestion these referees which are in place as the 'Junior' or second referee should be there to assist the Senior referee not to have half the control of the game. This will then fix this problem. How? If the senior referee was at the scrum the other night do you think we would have had the debacle? If the senior referee was in control in yesterdays match to we have the major inconsistancies in the 10m and the final penalty? Do we have Benji Marshall getting sent for 10? If we do it is easier to make them accountable, and the junior referees gain experience by assisting that is all.
I also find it incredible that Des Hasler has the nerve to windge about yesterdays result when Manly won a Grand Final because Cameron Smith was rubbed out for a tackle which has gone unpunished for the previous 28 weeks of the season, which ultimately denied the Storm any chance. Wake up Des you cry baby and take the good with the bad just as every other team in the NRL does. If your team was any good with the opportunities they had to win the game yesterday at the 78th minute the game should have been over.
Yeah there are two sides to it. The Titans side and the everyone else side. You have to be joking if you think the Newcastle Vs Titans incident is karma for the call yesterday. I know you said that you are a Titans fan but seriously Scott Prince took took out the defender and it was a clear no try vs the Knights. How can you call that a 50/50 decision. They were not "robbed". It was a clear penalty.
ReplyDeleteI do agree Manly should have won the game earlier and if that $200k lemon Tony Williams could hold the ball with his dinosaur hands then it may have been a different story. But getting back to the issue at hand.
This is a quote from todays paper.
"A FUMING Manly captain Matt Orford told Matt Cecchin, "You'll be in reserve grade next week", after another refereeing howler overshadowed a thrilling game yesterday."
I will highlight the fact that the decision made yesterday was referred to as a "howler". I am confident that the Prince penalty a couple of weeks back was not quoted as a bad decision at all. Orford went for the ball. He didn't go to take out Presto. It was a knock and the Titans should have got another set of six. It wasn't even a 50/50 call. If the senior ref was controlling then I don't think he would have called it a penalty. It will be interesting to see what Robert Finch says this week.
Also can you tell me how you can compare Manly winning a grand final to losing the game yesterday because of a referee's interpretation ?? Melbourne had lost all their momentum leading into the semi's and were playing very average with or without Smith. Smith was put on report and the judiciary suspended him. The referee on the field did not directly cause him to miss the grand final. Its also interesting that you note that it had gone unpunished for 28 weeks of last season, from what I remember that was the main focus for the entire season he wasn't the only person suspended for a grapple tackle, chicken wing or crusher tackle. He had enough warning. He did the wrong thing. He copped the punishment. He was made an example off in a way but he still did the wrong thing.
Is it just me or are you just another person that simply hates Manly ?? There are plenty out there....
Good points Boxhead but;
ReplyDelete1. I dont think the Coast wre robbed 2 weeks ago, Prince clearly grabbed the head of the marker. If as he thinks the marker is forcing his head into Princes "Headlock" then Prince should have raised his arms and the try would have been awarded.
2. Cameron Smith almost ripped Thaidays arm off so he totally deserved what he got. Sure there is some major inconsistencies in this area, but he is a high profile player with a good football brain, he should know better than to do that at in finals football especially when they are cracking down on the chicken wings at that point in time.
I am not a Melbourne hater as I took them for the comp last year but that was blatantly bad and deserved the sentence.
I belive the 2 ref system is good but the senior ref should definitely have total control of the game with the "assistance" of the junior ref. This gives consistency in the 10 metres and allows the junior ref to get a feel for the game and gradually work their way to being the "senior" ref. Ex players is also a great idea as they do know how a game flows and have a better feel for the game.
while i thought it was a bad decision and looked terrible on replay, that call can't be compared with the st george debacle last week. in real time you could see why the ref might make that call, as bad as it was- orford did send presto sprawling (although i obviously agree he had a right to play at the ball.) it was regrettable that it cost the game but thats life. i dont think an overhaul of the whole reffing system would fix calls like these which come down to judgement and human error where players are moving and colliding fast. the replay fiasco and obstruction interpretations last week were far worse and can be overhauled.
ReplyDeletethe second ref, for all the kinks, has cut down the wrestling which has made the game better to watch, so i dont think scrapping it is the answer
I agree the penalty was dicy and I am a Titans fan however Manly as I said above cost themselves the game by not putting it away earlier.
ReplyDeleteNewcastle incident is as simple as: If I grab your head does that effect your legs? No. The Newcastle defender took a dive. Its comments and approaches like this that will turn our game into a dive fest like soccer. If that play occurred on halfway would it have been a penalty? Wake up.
I agree Smith got what he deserved but the 4000 before him didnt and thats why it was a media driven joke. Inconsistancy which ruined the Grand Final and handed it to Manly.
Matt Orford also leg with the legs, is this not what Billy Slater has been getting penalised for? Must just be my INTERPRETATION...
Orford led with the Legs above
ReplyDeleteRE: Newcastle incident.
ReplyDeleteFirstly the video referee Sean Hampstead made the decision to not award the try and not the on field referees. He had a fair few looks at and I wish Checcin could have sent his decision to the video ref also.
You can not obstruct the defender from making a tackle. Whether or not Sau took a dive is another question. Prince can be seen putting his arm across the neck/head of Sau. There was no other option but to give the penalty.
Diving is more apart of the game than ever before. How many times do you see a player take a dive before playing the ball to milk a penalty ? How many times do players purposely run into decoy runners and dive to the ground to earn a penalty ? How many times do players take a hit to the head and wait for the video ref to award a penalty before getting up to play the ball with no problem ? Players take every advantage they can to get a benefit for their team. I personally think that if Prince has his arm around Sau on the halfway line and Zillman tried to run through (under) him then a penalty would have been given. The refs love policing the ruck and would have been an easy call.
If that was not a try then I have seen 100's which have gone unpenalised in a heap of games. Zillman would have scored regardless of Sau, the other 3 blokes couldnt stop him. But if you buy into the notion that was a no try then your going into the category of those who accept the fact players dive. The only reason they dive is because they know it will be a penalty. Award the try and tell Sau to be more concerned with making a tackle rather than taking a dive. This has krept into the game because peoples opinions such as yours condone their actions.
ReplyDeleteIf the issue happened on halfway and Zillman runs and scores they wouldnt have used the video referee. If Sau took a dive at marker they would have played on. Apparently the rules and peoples opinions change in regards to what part of the field the play is situated.
Prince should have suspended for making a grapple tackle on Sau. I could not care less about that game yet immediately called Prince for clearly stopping Sau from having an opportunity to make the tackle. I can't believe this issue is being debated. It was clear cut. Plus Prince is a typical little niggling grub of a halfback in the same mould as Gary Freeman. He got found out, similar to C Smith last year who also got found out. Prince will learn and never do it again. Same as Smith.
ReplyDeleteAs for Billy 'The Grub' Slater and his stray knees in the ingoal. He will AGAIN get found out because he is too stupid to stop offending.
SUSPENDED? Please, if Sau actually attempted to make a tackle my opinion would be totally different. Its a QLD bash up.
ReplyDeleteYesterdays call was not correct I am fine with that, I beleive as stated above the Coast were ripped off against Newcastle. However as long as we have INTERPRETATION as a rule of thumb on all rules and inexperienced referees in the hot seat we will continually get dud calls.
I guess the lesson is what goes around comes around and take the good with the bad. Every team will get a dud call against them, but it will even out down the track. Manly can cry as much as they want but they are a pack of grubs who deserved what they got yesterday and they wont get an ounce of sympathy from me.
RE: "This has krept into the game because peoples opinions such as yours condone their actions"
ReplyDeleteI do not "condone" diving. I simply stated that it is part of the game. There is nothing that you or I can do to stop it from happening. Can you give me an example of a contact sport where a person does not exaggerate an event to get a reward ??
Do you seriously think that my opinion and the people that you have put me with in a "category" with have any impact on what NRL players do during the game ?? If so how ?? I have no idea...
Finally the try was not awarded because Scott Prince put himself in a position where the referee had no other option but to disallow it. Prince and probably all Titans fan will say they simply were tangled up. The video doesn't lie. Prince put his arm around his head. If Zillman would have scored anyway then why did Prince reach out put him a headlock ? How much more evidence do you need to see that it was illegal ?
Your obviously ok with diving, I am not. Accepting the fact it is in the game will only result in our game turning into the farce that soccer has become. NFL, Union are sports similar to ours who dont have anywhere near the ammount of diving and gamesmanship. This is because the rules and referees dont award people diving.
ReplyDeleteThe difference is the game is rewarding cowardly play, Union and NFL do not. I agree that when looking at the replay of the Zillman no try it could not be awarded. The point I am trying to make is that A: Sau did not attempt to make the tackle. B: A minor tangle in the play the ball did not prevent Sau from making the tackle. The only issue preventing the try being awarded was that Sau took a dive thus preventing him to make a tackle using minor contact with the man playing the ball as an excuse.
This is also why the obstruction rule is not working. We reward defenders who rush up and make bad defensive reads on attacking players. But then say the attacking player was in the wrong because they put the defence in two minds.
Continue rewarding divers and dumb players and we will get dud calls all the time. You are happy to windge and say referees are a joke but your happy to accept people diving and deliberately running into players to get penalties which makes the referees job substansially harder. You cannot have one without the other.
In my opinion the Prince, Cambell and Soward issues are all play on. One went with the Titans one went against them, take the good with the bad. I dont care whether the Titans win or loose as long as its not decided by the referee. So both games are a bit hollow to be honest. Let the players decide the outcome. Not a man in a box who has never played the game, and not some skirt who wants to take a dive.
I think you are too caught up in arguing with everyone that you are forgetting the point of mine and George's original arguement. Junior Sau didn't attempt to make the tackle, point taken. He was a tired and made the most of the contact, correct. What we were saying from the start and all the way through was that Scott Prince deserved what he got by being "STUPID" and headlocking Sau. I agree that Zillman probably scores anyway, but we will never know becuase of Princes actions. It was not just a brush over the shoulder, he grabbed him and thats clear cut Boxhead. Dont think we are purely QLD bashing as you label it. If you Titans fans still feel ripped off after seeing the vision for the 20th time then you are living in a dream world similar to that off the movie Anchor Man full. I hate diving in any sport and dont condone it ever, especially in NRL. I hate Manly as much as most people but was not happy with the decision that cost them the game. Yes they should have been in front by more and not had to worry about losing in the last few seconds, but thats not the point. Hopefully every team will get their fare share of good and bad calls over the year, if so the Dragons will get heaps of bad luck soon as they have been veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery lucky so far.
ReplyDeleteI said its part of the game. I didn't say I liked it or that I am "ok" with it or that I "condone" it. Get your facts right before accusing me of anything. You are either drunk or stoned if you think that by me accepting the fact that diving is happening in the NRL that I am turning the game into a farce. Its not even a major issue of the game, its just a part of it. Where are the headlines about diving ruining the game ?? How come this "issue" has not been discussed at all this year ?? All the talk is about the referees making the wrong decisions.
ReplyDeleteThe game is not rewarding cowardly play. If a person dives and does something illegal and it goes to the video ref, then you should be fairly confident that the video ref will make the right decision. If your the referee on the ground and you want to make a judgment call and your confident go for it. If you inexperienced or there is some doubt ask for a second opinion from the other ref or the video ref. Its a simple process. Its a shame that the ref that was confident to make the decision yesterday was incompetent.
Agreed, however I just cant cop rewarding diving. We were not ripped off it had to be a penalty. However they were both 50/50 interpratation calls and we got one and lost one. Life goes on. Im more concerned with how many games with similar issues will be decided because players feel they can get away with taking a dive. Knights played alot better than us on that day as Manly did yesterday. Dont think I live in a Titanic shell, if anything im more critical of them than any other side. I just hate referees deciding matches.
ReplyDeleteI dont want to hear the Manly whining because they have had plenty go for them including the Smith suspension which was a discrace in the context of suspension for grappling and chicken wings throughout 2008. I tend to disagree with the Dragons call, they are a well drilled, well structured side who create their own luck by being in the contest week in week out. Thats what I am enjoying about the Titans this season we are competitive thats all I want to see. I dont wish to argue, Im just expressing my opinion on the issue as you are and venting my frustration with the diving. Lets hope we see a game tonight which the players decide and is refereed correctly and there are no dives!
We can only hope.